Wiring Help

Hello Everyone,


I am from India and recently have bought an Engine of a 1922 Suzuki Swift Gti DOHC. The engine was complete and didn't have an alternator, starter, ECU and wiring. Now this engine was never launched in India by Suzuki. Now my plans are to fit this engine in a 2003 Maruti Suzuki Zen. I think it is called the ALTO their. Picture attached.

http://www.iloveindia.com/cars/shows-pictures.php?img=maruti-zen.jpg

I have bought the ECU and wiring from Steve on this forum. The ECU has got a group A chip in it. The chip was being made and is now ready. Steve is supposed to be sending it to me soon with the Engine wiring harness.

What i want to know is, do i need the GTI dash board wiring also or can i use the Zen dash board wiring since i am going to be using the Zen instruments ? The Zen also doesn't come with a RPM meter built into its instrument cluster. Any suggestions on how i can g about this ?

Thank you in anticipation.

Sparks

Hi Sparks

I've also been in this situation for some time, with a 1998 Justy. I don't know much about Altos but if you use the Gti
loom without gti dash, stalks and lights you will need to connect your lights, signals, switches to the gti loom.
What engine are you taking out? Have you got a new fuel pump?

Wiring diagram:
www.teamswift.net/Lihtan/gti/89-GTI-Wiring-Diagram-G4.tif

I now wonder if a gti loom could be used just to run the gti ECU and engine, by leaving all original wiring and connecting
only whats needed by the gti loom. So the car would have 2 ECUs but all original ignition, keys, lights, dash etc.
Does anyone have any ideas about that?

From my experience with other cars and from what I can see in the 89 model wiring diagram it should be a matter of connecting the ecu loom to power and the engine and away you go.
Now when I say engine if you have the engine loom, it should connect to;
Ground, C02 adjustment, 4 injectors, water temp, distributor, exhaust gas tem sensor, Throttle position sensor, Air flow meter, Idle speed solenoid, Thats it
There should be a feed from the starter which may not be present neither ther may be a feed to the noise supressor
If its an 8 v injected version already a feed from the instrument cluster will exist to be tapped into otherwise this may need splicing.
a feed from the air con if fitted
there is no reason why with a correct and complete wiring loom it should not be plug and play
GTP

Alan_Drover90 wrote:Hi Sparks

I've also been in this situation for some time, with a 1998 Justy. I don't know much about Altos but if you use the Gti
loom without gti dash, stalks and lights you will need to connect your lights, signals, switches to the gti loom.
What engine are you taking out? Have you got a new fuel pump?


Wiring diagram:
www.teamswift.net/Lihtan/gti/89-GTI-Wiring-Diagram-G4.tif

I now wonder if a gti loom could be used just to run the gti ECU and engine, by leaving all original wiring and connecting
only whats needed by the gti loom. So the car would have 2 ECUs but all original ignition, keys, lights, dash etc.
Does anyone have any ideas about that?

[/Quote]

Hi Alan,

Well there wouldn't be much difference in the instruments or other components that we would need to connect to the ECU. Where the actual problem is, is the connectors that goes into the ECU. Now in the case of the Alto the coupler that comes from the dash board feeds power to the ECU. So what I think would work correct is to use the GTI engine and wiring looms it could be done. Basic thing which I guess we need to keep in mind is that we need to give the ECU what it wants. If we work in that approach I guess more that half the problem is solved. Now for this you would need to have a GTI and a justy wiring manuaL and need to see how you can get the lights, horns etc to run off the justy wiring and also how to use the justy ignition key, meters, instrument cluster and everything else on the dash board to run off the GTI wiring. In that case you might need to make modifications to the wiring. This is probably the best way we can run it in a stock way for the time being with out much expense although it requires lots of time and patients. Another way would be to go for a stand alone ECU and then get a custom wiring harness work the GTI engine made and then caliberate the dashboard wiring to the standalone but that's gonna be an expensive affair.

This car has a 1000CC 4cylinder engine which generates 60BHP. Don't know the engine code for it. The fuel pump is a part of the float. I would think the alto one should be sufficient as the alto engine is also fuel injected.

I am also planning a mod on a Maruti Suzuki Gypsy which is called the Suzuki Samurai. This is however the long wheel base model with a 1300CC and a 1000CC varient. I am Planning to use a Maruti Suzuki Baleno engine in it. That is the G16B engine. I am having the same problem in that project too. Friends have given me many suggestions like going in for a head swap with the G13B head and intake manifold etc so that I use the gypsy wiring but then I guess I am gonna do it the way as I just said above I.E to use the baleno wiring in the dash and the engine. The only problem that I see in that is, the baleno speedo meter worked of a speed sensor where as the Gypsy has the older system of having the speedo through the cable. So the engine malfunction light will be always on. Need to find a solution to that too soon. Hopefully will get a way for that too.

Thank you for the link to the GTI wiring manual.

Regards

Sparks

gtpswift wrote:From my experience with other cars and from what I can see in the 89 model wiring diagram it should be a matter of connecting the ecu loom to power and the engine and away you go.
Now when I say engine if you have the engine loom, it should connect to;
Ground, C02 adjustment, 4 injectors, water temp, distributor, exhaust gas tem sensor, Throttle position sensor, Air flow meter, Idle speed solenoid, Thats it
There should be a feed from the starter which may not be present neither ther may be a feed to the noise supressor
If its an 8 v injected version already a feed from the instrument cluster will exist to be tapped into otherwise this may need splicing.
a feed from the air con if fitted
there is no reason why with a correct and complete wiring loom it should not be plug and play
GTP

Hi GTP,

I guess I am understanding what you are trying to say. The only bottle neck is the coupler from the dashboard wiring to the ECU. If you refern to the post I made above in which I replied to Alan, we need to give the ECU what it needs.

Thanks for the inputs

Sparks

your right and I believe the 89 wiring is pretty much a match for later cars so identify the correct color out of the dash and splice into it for the ecu or discover what it does onthe gti and identify the corresponding one on the other cars and splice that one. I know a GTi dash cluster will plug and play in a carbed 8 valve so the wiring is all ther inthe GTi, swift and justy in another thats where it gets complex
and I agree give it what it wants, knowing what it wants is easy knowing where most of it is realativeky easy its the last 3 wires I think that may be difficult...but I guarantee not impossible

GTP

Hi Sparky

The advice I had was to replace whole car loom with gti loom including gti dash and stalks then the couplers will match. If you have the same problem as me couplers for your dash and lights are probably different to those on gti loom. Alot of wiring needs to be spliced to do it this way, expensive job in uk. I looked at standalone ecus and got thinking about an OEM gti ecu running piggyback on my justy, no need to rip out wires, re-wire lights and dash. Also keeping the original chipped key for the immobiliser. The check engine light would be on because the original ecu wouldn't have an engine attached, but power would get to gti ecu from a swiched live somewhere. Hard for me to explain because I have no idea how to do this, but I think it makes sense.

sorry for misleading username
Tom

Hi,

I have a feeling you guy are going with difficult way here.
So you have a Gti engine.... can you get hold of mk1 Gti dizzy from OZ or NZ?
By using this with a low pressure fuel pump, you can run without an ECU.

I think Gti ECU used speedo sensor(may be revs) in it's cluster for it to run correctly. So you will need correct a wiring. I'm not sure OEM fuel pump you have with Alto is man enough to supply fuel for MPi. I think G10 Alto engine might be a single injection. This is the reason why I think mk1 dizzy might be cheaper option.

If you need parts for either way, let me know. I have both mk1 dizzy as well as mk2 wiring harness...

Cheers
Atchi

Okay, So here is the engine loom i have which i bought from steve and the ECU. Now there are a few couplers i have photographed individually, i would like to know what they are used for.

Also how is the battery connected to the wiring? The wiring that we have on our Suzuki cars here, the wire for the battery terminal is apart of the engine wiring harness.










Regards

Indrojit Sircar

first one goes into engine loom power etc black plug is for the m.a.f green one is for altenator

steve

Engine loom ? Is that a part of the chassis loom ? I thought this was the engine loom itself ?


Regards

Indrojit

The first image is the back of the ECU so the engine loom plugs into it. the 3 same coloured plugs on the loom fit there.
GTP

Hi,

I get that. I wanted to know what the one below is for-


Also had another question, What are these holes on the distributor for >? Are they meant to be left as they are?

I was having a chat with Gary and he had a spare engine loom for a mark II phase II and he checked that and he found that there is no round coupler on his wiring loom like there is on mine. So which makes me think that the wiring is the wrong one for engine i have. So which means that i need to change it. Although the couplers on the ECU end fit perfectly. Are the ECU's the same on the Mark ph 1 and Ph2 ?

Regards

Indrojit Sircar

Different ecu for ph1/2, you can use a ph2 engine on a ph1 loom, it just wont have the O2 sensor, not sure about the ecu, people have claimed to use a ph1 in a ph2 car but iv yet to actually see one

I believe that the ECU i have is a Mark II PH2 ECu. Atleast that is what i was told when i bought it. Now The only thing that is confusing at the moment is the white round coupler. Incase anyone has the wiring diagram could check and tell me what that is for ? i can tell you the color of the wires as that would help to identify it.

I think you will find that the round plug goes into the car loom

yea the round plug goes into car loom but since urs is a alto you dont need to worry take diagrams from both car looms and match them up then you should be able to get everything working

steve

always wondered what an alto would be like with a gti engine

@Haylingmini- thanks mate much appriciated. I was quite stuck with trying to figure it out. I had asked someone to send me the wiring diagram so that I could figure it out.

@steve- is the coupler the same on the Mark ph1 and ph2?? The wiring on the alto is different. There are 3 couplers on the ECU. 2 of them come from the ECU and 1 comesfrom the dash board wiring. So making it work with the engine wiring of the GTi, it would be a nightmare.

@Almondo74: well someone has already done it. Check out this link and the video at the end of the page. Link - http://www.steeroids.in/zen-gti-with-a-heavy-dose-of-steeroids.html

Regards

Sparks

Thats not bad atall, I see hes got one of striders intake mani's on there to make some room

How are they different?

Short straight runners and the throttlebody is on the other side, if you need a reverse intake I modify std intakes, theres pics in my flickr link

Ok. I had a look. I guess I would first want to start the engine and get the car running at stock specs. After that I'd consider upgrading to racing cams and the short intake.

@haylingmini - Hey, What do you think of this connector ? This is next to the 3 connectors that go into the ECU. I guess this would fit to the dash wiring ?




How is the Big fuse box in the engine bay connected to the wiring ? The round plug has 8 pins and the wires that go into that are -


1). Pink with white band
2). White with blue band
3). White with black band
4). Black with white band
5). Blue
6).Black
7). Purple with green band
. Brown with yellow band


Also wanted to know what this connector below is for. It has this rubber cover on it. Then this connector like thing that comes out. The female part of the connector comes out and finally we have a connector with 3 wires in it.